Innovation vs. Happiness: How to unleash creativity through self-care?

Finding the perfect balance between work and personal life is a universal challenge. Innovation vs. Happiness podcast tells you the stories of three professionals who moved to Espoo, Finland and learned how to thrive in both their career and personal life.

In this episode we will hear insights from our guest Erika Holt, Customer Account Lead, VTT. She will share her story on discovering the secrets of balancing creativity, work-life harmony, and collaborative success host Harri Paananen, Director, Economic Development, City of Espoo.

Did the podcast episode spark thoughts or questions? Join the conversation on social media with #InnovationVsHappiness.

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Erika: You know, rather than sending that last e-mail at 10 PM, it's better to to slow down and take time for yourself. And that might spark some creativity in our mind that we can carry over into our… into our work life.

Intro

Harri: Welcome to Innovation vs Happiness. My name is Harri Paananen and in this podcast I will be asking the question, is combining innovation and happiness possible? The world is full of people in either-or-situations. Either you climb the career ladder and have an impact but don't have time for anything else, or you choose well-being and happiness, but sacrifice ambition.

Seems like it's either “grind set”, or “Van Life”, but nothing in between. But what if you want both? I wanted to interview people who have done the seemingly impossible and today I will be talking with Erika Holt.

She is a nuclear industry expert who promotes Finnish nuclear solutions globally. Originally from Seattle, US, she came to Finland in -96 to work at the Technical Research Center of Finland, VTT and has stayed ever since.

Her CV is impressive. Scientific publications, international speaking engagement, a PhD. How has she managed to combine a happy life with all this ambition? We'll find out when I invite her to the studio. But before that, let's follow Erika and our reporter Mari to a place filled with innovation.

Erika: We're at the center of nuclear safety here on the VTT campus in Otaniemi, and this is a place where we are doing all types of research and development to ensure that the Finnish nuclear power operation as well as waste management is handled efficiently and those can be things that…

Mari: And safely.

Erika: Safely, always, safely. Safety comes first. Safety is what we have to ensure. But we try to look at ways to also make it more efficient and that can be with time or cost, using less materials so that we're supporting sustainability issues. So developing techniques to help industry, that can be the power plants or the supply chain or the regulators or the government, have better policies and practices for handling nuclear energy as well as the waste that results from that.

Mari: So what is the impact of these innovations?

Erika: Definitely looking at, you know, ways to to do things faster and to do things cheaper, to do things safer. So for instance, using more robotics so there's less exposure to people, to make sure materials are not aging prematurely or having breakage or failures in the power plants. Also looking at issues like waste releases and that the water and the materials are well treated before they're disposed of or before they're recycled and reused in another application.

So trying to bring new technologies all the time and beyond, what are the standard methods because we're looking at materials and structures that have very long age and life. So when the power plant operators are extending the life of their plants to 60 or 80 years or we're looking at waste management that needs to be put underground for… for thousands of years.

Trying to ensure that the models and the material science there is showing the safety is OK for the public.

Mari: So it's really about the safety of also like future generations. We're looking at quite a long impact.

Erika: Definitely. For Finland, we are one of the world leaders in handling of waste and we are the first to be building the underground repository of Onkalo, which is operated by Posiva and it will be storing the nuclear waste permanently for a safety of 1,000,000 years, so…

Mari: Wow.

Erika: And you can't…

Mari: So the impact is not like you know 1/4 it's… it's a million years forward.

Erika: And that's, of course, that's very, very challenging to model and… and simulate. But Finland is and… and the work we're doing here at VTT and with our partners, it is about showing that we take it responsibly. If we have nuclear energy then we need to be responsible and have a solution to dispose of the waste and we can model it and simulate it and use scenarios to look at, you know, future ice ages and earthquakes and how the material is going to survive.

Mari: So you are really trying to imagine what what life will be for the next billion years.

Erika: Yeah, for sure. I mean, even you know, the pyramids in Egypt have been there for thousands of years…

Mari: Yeah, yeah.

Erika: … and we're talking about putting waste underground for… for millennia beyond that. So how to ensure…

Mari: You're building kind of the pyramid, but underground.

Erika: Underground, yes, and ensuring that, you know, the the local people are not going to be fearful about the quality of their fish or the potatoes or even when we have future ice ages or earthquakes or drilling that it is going to be isolated well.

Mari: So you're working very much with the Finnish solutions, but is this also something that you are taking to the rest of the world?

Erika: All the time. Our international collaboration is so important and we can't do everything here in Finland. And so we utilize the expertise in different parties and and countries. So we have colleagues who are here even this week from from Spain and from Italy and from France and Belgium, who are working together with us, maybe testing different materials or doing the mathematical modeling that we're benchmarking compared to each other and getting the best practices both for new types of materials and also for best practices in… in issues like data handling or artificial intelligence, sensing, monitoring.

Mari: So there's a saying that in Otaniemi you create the kind of innovation the world needs. So why is this the kind of innovation the world needs?

Erika: I think Finland and… and Otaniemi are great about working together. It's a benefit of being a small country, that we pool together very many disciplines. So here at VTT together with with Aalto University and even the startup companies that are here, we're working together to identify a challenge and together think about what we could do to advance that and upscaling it and trying something here maybe smaller scale in the lab and then doing a demonstration in the field and working together to get it into practice.

So I think that has been a great, great part of how we do innovation in Finland and because we are a bit smaller of a country in a research community, but it does mean that we can take risks and go faster to implement the technologies. And it's been been great to see things go into practice very quick. And I think that's something that the others internationally admire for us, that we can create these ecosystems between business and industry and research, even the regulators with us and the policy makers and the government to to move initiatives forward.

Interlude

Harri: From the Nuclear Safety Center back to the podcast studio, I'm here with Erika Holt and we are discussing innovation and happiness. Thank you for taking us to such an exclusive environment, Erika, and welcome to the podcast.

Erika: Thanks. Great to be here, Harri.

Harri: You really have achieved an ambitious, innovative and high impact career. What do you think? Can ambition get in the way of creating a happy life?

Erika: No. You need to have both in the life and I think that's a great part, or what I've realized of being in Finland, that even though I can have an ambitious career and high goals for my myself and the people around me and the aspects of VTT for the engineering and science that I do, it's easy to balance that with a quality of life and making sure that I have things in balance for myself and my friends and my family.

Harri: That's really interesting to hear because our previous guest said pretty much the exact same thing, that you do need both to be actually successful. Is there a trick to it? Do you need… is… Do you feel that needs conscious effort to balance these factors?

Erika: I think we have to draw limits for ourselves. I mean we, you know, I come from an American culture and… and grew up with that around me of having ambitious family and friends. And I still see that of course when I'm in the US but it was a realization after being in Finland to… to know that I have to set limits and boundaries for myself. The To-Do List is always going to get longer when we're… when we're good and ambitious and but we have to know that there's a time to… to close the laptop or… or make time for the hobbies because those things they can wait until Monday.

We need to have the weekend off to… to make time for ourselves.

Harri: Absolutely. I'm a very much a believer in that same philosophy and I actually believe, personally, that the end result of my work will be better if I do keep those boundaries.

Erika: I fully agree. I think that's when we're, you know, also taking time for ourselves and that we find new ideas and that helps us in our creativity and in our ambition. So, you know, that might be while out walking in the forest or baking a cake or, you know, watching a documentary on the on the nature TV.

You know, rather than sending that last e-mail at 10:00 PM, it's better to to slow down and take time for ourselves. And that might spark some creativity in our mind that we can carry over into our… into our work life. You know, a huge benefit of Finland, for instance is the maternity leave situation.

Harri: Exactly.

Erika: And I chose to stay home for a year and a half with each of my children and that was totally accepted here.

Harri: Absolutely.

Erika: And we hear from other colleagues who, you know, unfortunately their systems just don't support that or they feel an obligation that they need to choose one or the other between the… the family paths or their hobby paths or even if people have opportunities to pursue hobbies if that's athletics or music or dance. And and trying to think, can you really do both.

And I think Finland has been a great place in a… in a way that the society encourages that to have both your well-being and that that leads to the happiness, but also provides the environment to thrive with a… with a career and the paths that one chooses.

Harri: Hard agree. We just had our second daughter a year ago and I'm about to take paternity leave for the second time for an extended period. And I've been really happy to notice as well with my own employer. That is encouraged and expected.

Erika: Yes.

Harri: It's not something I have to apologize for.

Erika: Yeah, and also for as… as the male, same as my husband who did take, you know, a couple months off also. We could share our our leave, how we chose for a family, and what… what he was comfortable with in his career path and mine. And it was wonderful that he also chose to stay home for part of the leave.

Harri: For sure, and this is maybe something I've noticed since, you know, following American media. There's a difference that… that we don't seem to have that discussion here about choosing one parent's career over the other.

Erika: Yeah, I think that also comes from a maybe a tradition of… of Finland and and kind of the ethics and the morals of… of the Finnish society which is also integrated when people move here. That, you know, Finland was one of the first countries where women could vote and there everyone pays their taxes individually, not as… as a family.

So, you know it… it is an equal opportunity and it's up to… to you with your partner to decide who, you know who might have a job change or who might live in what city or who might be home to take care of the children or… or leave work at 3:00 to drive the kids to carpool and then turn on the computer later at home.

So it is a high flexibility for that kind of work life balance to accommodate if it's the family or the hobbies or… or an illness. And on the same I've there's been times when I've had a flexibility to work from home just because of health issues, but that's been wonderful that it, it has not compromised my career path for any reasons.

Harri: I… I think in some ways that flexibility comes from a place of trust, mutual trust, because I feel that most employers trust you to do, well, arrange your life as it is best for you, but you… that you will… they will trust you to do your best and… and that you will not be like exploiting this flexibility.

Erika: That's a good point. I think it comes with a trust that we have clear roles and responsibilities and that we're very honest in our feedback and we have frequent development discussions or it's OK to go down the hall and say you know that wasn't up to par. Can you explain to me why and how can I help you next time get through it better.

Harri: Absolutely.

Erika: So that we have clear expectations of each other and we're OK to talk about it. And I think we… we don't hold a grudge. We get over it, we give feedback and we move on and we're… we're all in it together. And part of that might come because it's a small society, but I also just think it comes from a Finnish mindset of being… being honest and giving feedback.

Harri: Well, back to you. You've worked your entire career at the Technical Research Centre of Finland VTT. Do you think the balance between innovation and happiness would have been different? Should you have chosen a US based employer?

Erika: Of course, in the United States it it's a huge culture and a lot of different cities. So I'm comparing it to where… where I grew up, which was in… in the countryside outside of Seattle and then I moved to the city for my university studies. And of course it can be different living in… in a different environment or a different career path.

I think if I had continued to live in the United States or if I… if I choose now or or in the past to go back to the United States. I think there is a lot of pressure from the people around us to have a certain caliber in our… in our work ethics and… and probably also a little bit more in… in some areas about material possessions and a bit of, sometimes more competition.

And I think for me and my personality that has been something that I prefer or appreciate about Finland. So you know, we… I do have a great career path. I do pay very high tax, but I get huge benefits off that. We don't have as large of a house or as… maybe as many fancy cars. But I also don't have stresses about things on… on retirement or my children's upper education because university is free for multiple years and my Healthcare is free, my retirement is covered.

So things in the United States or… or some other countries as well that you need to save in case of a rainy day, I don't need to do in Finland. So I think that allows kind of a…a peace of mind that I can live you know from day-to-day or week-to-month and think OK I I can take that holiday or I can take a longer vacation to go scuba diving or to go skiing or… or even to go back and visit my family in the US, because I have a a trust in the system and… and where my salary goes to.

So I think in the the US I see that there's a… a greater uncertainty about, definitely driven by financial needs or… or worries or comfort, and… and I… I don't have that worry here because of the, kind of the safety of what I get from society.

Harri: Coming back to something you said in the pre-interview, apparently you think it's actually good for innovation, that it's a small country, it's a small ecosystem.

Could you elaborate on that?

Erika: Yeah, sure. In some of my early studies in doing research or working on my master's degree in the United States in civil engineering, I would notice that we would, you know, go to the annual conferences and we would be in committee meetings with my advisors.

And we would hear that they've been arguing on the same same thing for 10 or 20 years, waiting to get a standard changed or a methodology changed or something into practice.

And within the first year in Finland, I recognized the difference to be able to advance technologies because of the ecosystems we use in Finland. As a small country and, even for myself, in…  in the safety of radioactive waste disposal, we work so closely together in Finland with the… the regulatory, with the government authorities, with the operators or implementers, with their supply chain that we come together and we talk about what is the challenge, what is the question.

We brainstorm what are the options to address it and tackle it. We do good science and research. We look at the policies. We look at what are the the questions from the stakeholder or the public, and what's the question from the the farmer about the safety of the herring in the water or the potatoes in the field if there's a risk of a radiation release due to an earthquake, for instance, in the repository.

But because we come together with this ecosystem as a small country, we agree on what the challenge is. We work together to openly discuss it and advance the… the knowledge and reduce the uncertainties. And because we've done it together as this ecosystem, it's faster to get it into practice. I think even though compared to, for instance Finnish-Swedish culture, we… we go to meetings in Sweden sometimes and we think oh OK, we talk about it and talk about it.

But here in Finland, maybe it goes with the stereotype that we're a little quieter, but but we're very honest and straightforward. So we talk about it together and we address the challenge together and then we can implement that new innovation. And I think we're also, we are willing to take the risks.

Harri: Sure.

Erika: We… we need to try new things, but we also need to admit and be honest when it doesn't work, that we also fail fast and then we move on. And I think that's been a route for having good innovation if that's in quantum computing or if that's in food and biotechnology or if that's in… in nuclear safety and… and the waste management field that I'm in.

Harri: I absolutely agree. And I think it's quite funny that actually a lot of Finns do like to grumble about how slow we are to do things, but I think they may be just lack the international experience of what it can be elsewhere.

Erika: Yeah, perspective of… It's… They think the grass is greener on the other side, as we say in English. But if you go into that other culture, you know, wherever it might be in the world, we… I think you do realize that here in Finland, we do progress on a pretty good steady pace usually with a very accurate mindset and road map of where we want to go. And we're very good at reflecting on those milestones. And that means that we end up staying on schedule, we stay on budget and we get to that target. And I think that, you know from a research and technology perspective, that is also why we are so successful at what we do and why we're a sought after partner in a lot of, for instance, the European Union collaborative R&D that we do.

Harri: Sure. And of course, size has a factor in this, but I do think there's also a collaborative culture here that's quite specific, that's not related to the size necessarily. There's very low thresholds, boundaries between different organizations or sectors, comparatively.  feel it's quite easy to have dialogue, like you said.

Erika: Fully agree. Yeah, we… we can't compete. We're… we're too small to compete. I mean, I think about it from VTT in the field I'm working on and we work with the Geological Survey of Finland in the neighboring building all the time. And… and there's certain competences they need to keep and there's certain things we need to do.

Harri: Absolutely.

Erika: And then we also have to admit we can't be the best at everything in Finland or even in VTT.

Harri: Absolutely. Right.

Erika: And so we have this open mindset to say “hey, let's go partner with our colleagues in Belgium” or “let's go, you know, collaborate with the people in Silicon Valley”. And so we… we'd have this openness to say we don't want to do everything by ourselves if that's domestically or also on the European or… or international domain that we find the niche markets where Finland or… or our institute or our people are great at and we lift them up to focus on that.

And you know that even for us those are, a lot of times issues related to digitalization and handling of risks and handling of safety. But we might say “OK, let's go partner with this other group for doing really technical advanced modeling” and… and we learn and it's a win-win situation and that's… that's very true for a lot of our partnerships and in collaboration also with the United States.

Harri: Right.

Erika: Academically as well as well as on a business side.

Harri: It's a culture of maybe Co-petition instead of competition.

Erika: Yeah, a great word.

Harri: Well, coming closer to your personal line of work, what's a moment in your career where you felt like you really had an impact? On your field, the Globe?

Erika: Yeah. I am so proud of Finland's work in being the first to have the operation license in preparation for this first geological repository for the spent fuel from nuclear waste. Every country has invested in various techniques and applications for the good of their society, even from the medical industry that produces radioactive waste, even from hospital sectors and past generations have chose to have nuclear power.

And I'm really proud that our generation here in Finland and our governmental policies and our funding organizations and our utilities have invested in getting a final solution to safely put nuclear waste underground. And we design it and build it in a way to ensure that it's… it's safe. But if a future generation needs it as a resource that it's possible.

And so it is not a path I ever expected to be on. And I think that goes back to your earlier question too, you know, I'm not a radiation safety expert or I'm not a nuclear physicist. I'm a I'm a civil engineer who knows a lot about concrete materials and durability and harsh environments, but I started working on the material science for how we engineer the barriers for how to put waste underground.

And it has been… been very, very fortunate to be in this field and in this country and to be you know a sought after, you know guest speaker in… in panelists or to help competence development in other countries. So I would… I would say there's been many milestones in my career and… but I think in leading… leading some of these top projects representing Europe and representing Finland to show that we do have a solution that is about, you know, environmental stewardship and having sustainable practices to protect the world. And being able for the deployment of new energy technologies because of the need for the carbon neutrality or CO2 reductions.

Then energy mix is needing nuclear energy especially here in Finland for our own resilience. And so to do that responsibly by having a waste management solution is something I'm… I'm very, very proud of.

Harri: And now it's time to move from innovation and impact onto the happiness component. So let's follow Erika and Mari for a visit to Erika's happy place.

Erika: Welcome to Nuuksio National Park. This is a cabin that my husband and I built about 20 years ago, so we're in a very green space. It's autumn, so the leaves are falling and the vegetable gardens and flower beds are are going to sleep, but we're in the National Park of Espoo, about 20 minutes from… from VTT and our office in Otaniemi.

We have deer going through the yard pretty much daily and just a nice place to relax and be in nature, which is important for… for us here in Finland.

Mari: So you've said that this place represents kind of the Finnish happiness for you. So can you tell me why that is?

Erika: Yeah. For me, a great part of living in Finland has been this balance between work and… and life and… and hobbies. And so to me, this is being able to be so close to nature, being able to… to finish the work day or to escape on the weekends and just be down the road where we can be gathering mushrooms and berries and growing vegetables and having our friends over to… to grill and barbecue and sit around a bonfire for all types of seasons.

So this is the place where we unwind and it's just so easily accessible. And I think part of that Finnish happiness is being able to have that balance and with the… the hobbies and family and friends. So of course their career and and work is important and we do meaningful, impactful things but I think it's it's very important to take care of one's own mentality and being able to have hobbies here in the outdoors, if that's mountain biking or skiing or hiking, but also just enjoying time with family and friends here in the garden.

Mari: You've said that your international friends, when they come here, they… they usually say that they want to stay in Finland.

Erika: Yeah.

Mari: Why do you think that is?

Erika: I think when our international guests come from… for work quite often and even like as guest Fulbright professors, it's inspiring to them to realize they can have a different style of lifestyle. That things can slow down. That you can have this balance of doing great things and impactful things in… in work and in science and still publishing or having academic careers, but that you can also have time if that's in the city or… or here in… in nature and with the families and friends and that people really value that time.

So quite often when we've hosted international guests for… for work after three months or six months or a year they're starting to think how could I live here and and what's it take to get your citizenship and oh maybe I should study the Finnish language and these kind of things because they maybe recognize that it is not the same pace or the same pressure in as other big cities or or countries around the world.

Interlude

Harri: You're listening to Innovation versus Happiness. With me in the studio I have today Erika Holt, a leading nuclear safety expert. We've just visited Erika's Happy Place, her self-built cabin in the woods of the National Park of Nuuksio.

Thank you for sharing that special place with us, Erika. Thank you.

Erika: Great, thanks. Nice to have you visiting the forest with me.

Harri: Let's talk more about happiness. It's a big word. What does happiness mean to you in both your career and personal life?

Erika: Happiness means to me that we feel a satisfaction at the end of the day or when the weekend comes around that I'm… I'm proud of what I've achieved at work.

I might have my ups and downs, my frustrations, but a happiness or… or being content or proud of what's happened in my day and how I lead my career and work with the people around me and in my personal life that happiness also is, you know, being satisfied, being content. Not worrying or panicking or… or stressing that I should have been doing something different, but knowing that I'm on the right… right path for… for my life and the example that I lead with my family, with my friends and and my colleagues around.

Harri: Words like contention, satisfaction, meaning. It sounds like either you were secretly born in Finland or you just adopted the mindset. Because you know, as some of the listeners might know, Finland has been ranked the happiness… happiest country in the world for many years now in a row.

And… and this continues to perplex Finns because maybe at… at face value, that word might be associated with huge smiles and samba carnivals, which we're not known for, maybe. But I think that when… when Finns answer these kind of questionnaires and surveys, they talk about the things you are talking about.

Erika: With that, the circle of friends here, my American and international and Finnish friends, this is also a common topic around the… the dinner table or the… the bonfire at the cabin with a glass of wine, you know, “oh, we won the happiness survey again this year”.

And I think happiness for a… for a Finn, or from my mindset here, it is also… it comes because there is a… a comfort or a security that I'm not stressed about. You know what's going to happen next month if I get laid off…

Harri: Exactly.

Erika: …or what's going to happen if there's you know an illness in the family or what's going to happen if my… my children don't get into that university because I… I trust or I know that things are well organized and well taken care of in Finnish society with… with my job, with our healthcare, with our education and… and that every… that the the community will find the right path and the right support for people.

That they can have a comfort here. And so yes, we have struggles. Yes, we know people who have… have depression or… or health issues or unfortunately might lose a job because of economics or careers but… but there is a trust that our friends or our family or the society will… will support us or… or find a way forward.

So I… I think that as a secondary effect brings a happiness because we can find time for… for our hobbies and for ourselves. I think it also comes with the word “sisu”…

Harri: Yeah.

Erika: …which is more like a persistence or perseverance. That…

Harri: Resilience.

Erika: Resilience, that's the word I was looking for, which is a common term for Finns, if that's in athletics or if that's in surviving the winter. But this… this determination or mindset that we're going to get through it and we're going to get on… onwards and it's going to turn out OK.

Harri: Exactly.

Erika: And, you know, I have… I have Finnish roots and with my… my grandparents and I think my… my parents and grandparents raised us that way also in America. This… this mindset to you know have a balance to… to be secure in ourselves and confident in ourselves and that… that also bred that type of happiness and… and “sisu” from the culture I was raised in in the United States and… and I don't think I realized that until I lived here.

Harri: Some years ago, you actually were at a crossroads. You were offered a dream job in Chicago, but you turned it down to stay in Finland. This decision apparently had something to do with happiness. Could you tell me a bit about that?

Erika: Yeah. I had finished my PhD in civil engineering in concrete materials and I had a a job offer to go to do research in the United States and I… I think going through school and university that… that was the dream job.

I was amazed that I would be offered such an opportunity. I had a Finnish partner at that time. We weren't married yet, but someone I had met here at work, because I came here originally as a guest researcher. I came for just one year and stayed one more year and one more year, met a Finn and, he's now my husband and… and we have our two teenage kids, but I’d been here five years.

We went to Chicago, looked at where we would live, what kind of hobbies we'd have negotiated that we would get four weeks of holiday instead of the standard two, which they told me they would finally agree to, unpaid, to me, which was fine because my salary would be double what it is here.

But I had, I said I have to be able to go to Finland to see our family in the summers. So it was really debating. I had two weeks to choose, do I take this job? And my parents were visiting us here in Finland. And sitting at the breakfast table, I was telling my parents, OK, I really have to decide now at this crossroad.

And my dad looked across the breakfast table and he said, Erika, you know, we just want you to do whatever makes you happy and that's important for you. But, and Harri, I was waiting for him to say, but it would be nice to have you on American soil. You know, granted, they're in Seattle and and I'm going to Chicago, potentially, which is still a plane ride away, my dad said: “But, Erika, you have a pretty good life here and we're a little surprised that you would consider moving back to the US”. And it was really impressive to me, or a turning point, a realization that my family also understood that this was better for me, for my personality, for the love of the outdoors, for the love of travel, and for… for what made me happy and content that they could see that peace in me and that I had a good environment.

Harri: Well, we've talked a lot about the good aspects of working and living in Finland, but we want to have a real talk here because we have lots of listeners probably who are debating whether they should relocate. So they should have a realistic understanding. What are the challenges that you've encountered? There must be some, of course.

Erika: Yeah. I think the most common when people ask me is, “Oh my gosh, how do you handle the winter”, you know, “Oh, you're in the Arctic. It's… it… isn't it like Alaska, where it's dark and you're freezing cold”.

And I constantly say, “No, this is easier to me than… than Seattle”. I'm used to a culture in Seattle where we kind of have wet, gray, dreary, and it might be that kind of wintry, wet November feel for November… Here in Finland that's November, but in Seattle that could go for six months.

So I feel that here in Finland, even though it might be wet and gray, it's a very short period in the autumn and the spring and through the winter and there's blue sky, it's dry. We have fluffy powdery snow in Espoo that I can be out cross country skiing or walking the dog in the forest, doing outdoor activities and I feel that… that the light and… and that is… is great. Of course, then we have the wonderful benefit of a summertime long days where you know, I can still go play around a golf at at 9:00 at night after dinner because the sun… sun doesn't go down till… till closer to midnight.

Other things though challenges that people talk about or ask me. Of course it's hard to have a smaller salary we've already touched on that earlier and but the benefits we get are tremendous. You know, I don't… I don't have to worry about the the medical costs and I don't have to worry about, and save for, my children's upper education because it's free through… through the university degrees and public transportation is as excellent.

I can get anywhere by the train and the metro here in the metropolitan area and and also outside of of the Capital Region. So we don't need two cars and my children don't need a car when they start to get there… that… to that age. They can get everywhere to see their friends and their hobbies, even as teenagers by public transport.

I think a concern though that still… still exists when I have international friends or guests coming, for instance on the Fulbright program, is the opportunity for the spouses. And a lot of times someone might come as a guest researcher or… or as a permanent staff to us from abroad in VTT.

But there is a concern you know that their spouse feels that they need to do meaningful work also or their children need to be able to have education in English. I think there's really good programs for learning the Finnish language also for children that they can have an immersion year first before they go into the the Finnish school system and but… but these fears of the language are there and it's getting better. It's definitely better than it was was 10 or 20 years ago and I think the city and the government policies are improving that.

But I… I know there is still this hurdle to make sure that the spouses can also get integrated because I think if the …

Harri: Absolutely, yeah.

Erika: …family is not comfortable then it… it's hard for the person who's come here primarily.

Harri: Absolutely.

Erika: But I think it's just something that people need to talk about.

Harri: Right.

Erika: I think the employers are also willing to try to make efforts to help with the children's relocation or the spouses, or to have a flexible working environment to commute and those kind of things.

Harri: And you're right, this is something that the local government has recognized the cell… as well. I mean here comes the paid promotion part, but here at the at the City of Espoo, we have made policies to increase English language school opportunities because we have more and more newcomers.

And…  and also there is more and more programs that are aimed for the spouses of those relocating because, as we know, internationally mobile ambitious people will probably have internationally mobile ambitious spouses. So we have mentoring programs, matchmaking programs, coaching and stuff nowadays more geared to to that segment as well.

Erika: Yeah. And I think, you know, the universities do a tremendous job changing their curriculum to be in English, to having the work placement traineeships that are in English. You know, in VTT, earlier I was a team leader with about 30 people and 1/3 of those were international people.

So compared to when I also came to VTT 25 years ago, you know, we do have everything also in English. So it is encouraged to… to have a diversity and that… that brings a benefit to our innovation and… and our science and the collaborations we can establish with… with the networks that we have around the world. When we hire people from, you know in my team there was someone from Germany, there was 2 from Portugal, there's someone from Australia, from Turkey.

And that… that brings a richness and a culture to to how we can have innovation or… or also find happiness when we learn their practices or taste their foods and learn from each other.

Harri: Absolutely. I think it's been a long time ago already that our society recognized that we're very few here. We can't afford to leave anyone behind, especially our talented people. The brains are pretty much the only natural resources we have here, apart from timber.

So well, luckily brains are renewable resource, but still, and I think… there it is valued. Humans, individuals are valued.

Erika: I fully, fully agree and see that in… in our workplace culture and… and in the friendships and respect of… respect of people, of the rights of… of different cultures. So I have been very fortunate in… in that sense. But I think it does set a good example here. Of course there's challenges and there are… are worries that we have from… that are addressed every day and in the news or in… in politics.

But compared to other countries, I think we are, we're at the top of the list of how we're handling those things.

Harri: For sure. Well, to summarize, in this podcast we have discussed innovative carriers, happy lives, and the seemingly impossible combination of these two. I think we've concluded here with Erika that happiness and innovation can indeed coexist, at least here in Finland, and especially in the greater Otaniemi region.

Well, if you want to find out more about the possibilities available for international talent in Otaniemi, please visit bit.ly/espootalenthub(external link, opens in a new window).

Erika, do you have any recommendations or tips to people who want to find a balance between innovation and happiness in Finland or elsewhere? What's your 3 pointers?

Erika: My 3 pointers. The first would be to find that “sisu”. To find that kind of drive that you're going to get through it, that tomorrow's going to be a brighter day and to… to be content with that where you're at now. My second point would be to to take the risk to say “OK, let's go try to live in Espoo for six months” or “let's apply for that Fulbright grant” or “let's trust that my children can maybe learn English within a year and be OK in the school system here”.

So… so take that risk and trust that it's… we'll see how it is and I think you'll be surprised. And my third tip would be you're not going to do it alone. There is a great network here if that's Finnish people ready to support you or the work colleagues at VTT or somewhere else or even just with technology, the… the chat groups that we have in WhatsApp or in social media, Facebook Finnish foreigners group where you can ask what is Crema tartar or how can I find a Halloween party where my kids can trick or treat. There… there are networks.

So this… my tips would be: “sisu” to get… get through it and… and stay positive, to take the risk and trust that you're going to…you're going to benefit and learn even more and then know that you're well supported with a… with a network of people around you, be that here in Espoo or wherever you might go in the world.

Harri: “Sisu” and trust. Thank you, Erika. I think that's a great way to conclude.

Erika: Thanks, Harri.

Harri: Really enjoyed our conversation, thank you.

Erika: Thanks. It's been a great time, to talk and looking forward to seeing what comes next with the more international talent hopefully considering considering Finland, Espoo and Otaniemi.

Harri: Thank you.

Erika: Yeah.

Outro

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